Bringing Empathy to Every Member Touchpoint with Derrick Aguilar.

In the latest episode of Digital Banking Podcast, host Josh DeTar, Vice President of Sales and Marketing at Tyfone, welcomed Derrick Aguilar, Chief Experience Officer at PenAir Credit Union. The episode centered around how credit unions can create meaningful, consistent experiences across every channel and touchpoint.

Derrick shared why every interaction—big or small—can carry lasting weight for members. He explained that while digital banking, payments, and support are necessary, they are only part of a larger story. Derrick described how people remember the moments when someone in their financial institution truly stepped up for them, and how those moments build trust and loyalty over time. He stressed that members don’t see the complexity behind digital services; they just want things to work, and to feel cared for when they need help.

Throughout their conversation, Josh and Derrick explored how culture, communication, and empathy set credit unions apart in a crowded landscape. Derrick emphasized the need for purposeful connection with members and communities, not just reliable products. He outlined why understanding real needs, building goodwill, and sharing positive stories matter just as much as delivering on the basics.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Derrick Aguilar: financial relationships don't look like they used to look like, right. The whole PFI thing, the primary financial institution thing doesn't even exist anymore. I might use Venmo for what I need it for, which is gonna, and might still use the credit union, but that's gonna take deposits and, and services and stuff away from the credit union.

[00:00:14] Intro: The Digital Banking Podcast is powered by Tyfone. Tyfone is the creator of nFinia®, a dramatically better digital banking platform for community financial institutions, as well as several platform agnostic revenue generating point solutions. Our highly configurable platform and broad ecosystem of third party partners ensure our entire suite is scalable and extensible to meet the needs of any fi.

[00:00:43] Intro: On our podcast, you'll hear host Josh DeTar discuss today's most pressing financial technology topics with seasoned industry experts from every possible discipline.

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[00:02:00] Josh DeTar: Welcome to another episode of the Digital Banking Podcast. My guest today is Derrick Aguilar, the Chief Experience Officer at PenAir Credit Union. Broad shoulders and strong legs. That's the first thing that comes to mind for me when I think of Derrick. Not because he is built like Arnold Schwarzenegger, although he may be.

[00:02:18] Josh DeTar: I can't really tell from his suit. no. I say that because of what Derrick stands for and what's truly important to him as the CXO of a credit union and someone who's deeply passionate about giving people opportunities and beautiful life experiences. He carries a lot of weight around on those shoulders, and he tries to spend as much time as he can, walking as many miles as he can in other people's shoes.

[00:02:45] Josh DeTar: Derrick says he had a great life as a child. But growing up, being raised by a single mom meant he didn't have the luxury to travel and experience different cultures, people, or foods. So as he got older and started going to college for an international business degree, the desire to do just that was invigorated.

[00:03:05] Josh DeTar: Now it's a core part of he and his wife's mission for how they wanna raise their two children, show them a life of love and comfort, but with just the right dose of adversity to help them grow and world experiences to make them well-rounded. So how does this parlay into his professional day-to-day?

[00:03:23] Josh DeTar: Well, Derrick says, obviously everything in life is an experience. While a bad experience shopping at the grocery store can easily be shaken off in a day or two, a bad experience with our finances can cut way deeper and have a far bigger ripple bull effect on our lives. At the end of the day, our finances are some of the most important things in life to us, right behind our families and our health.

[00:03:47] Josh DeTar: But our financial health and stability actually has a direct impact on those two other things. And as an industry, we have a huge opportunity to do good for people or the opposite. And Derrick takes that really serious thinking back to the very first time he was sitting across from a member as a member services rep, and thinking, wow, this person trusts me, has left a forever impact on him.

[00:04:13] Josh DeTar: So today we get to hear from someone who has run with the bowls and lid to tell about it and how those life experiences shapes how he thinks about member experience at his credit union.

[00:04:25] Josh DeTar: Derrick, thanks for joining me man.

[00:04:28] Derrick Aguilar: Yeah. Excited to be here.

[00:04:30] Josh DeTar: I feel like, I mean, our listeners would probably be a little upset with me if I didn't ask for at least a little bit more of the story of the running with the bowls.

[00:04:38] Josh DeTar: I don't, I don't think you just trickle that out to people and then never come back to it.

[00:04:42] Derrick Aguilar: Yeah. I mean, talk about doing something way outside of your comfort zone. As you mentioned, I'd love to travel and my family loves to travel. this was a trip that I was invited on by, you know, from a friend and, and, I said, yeah, that, that sounds amazing. That sounds great. Although I was absolutely nervous and, and scared beforehand, and, anyway, I did it.

[00:05:03] Derrick Aguilar: I'm glad I did and I, I lived to, you know, to, to tell the story, which is fantastic. And, the only thing is I gotta do it again.

[00:05:12] Josh DeTar: Oh, really?

[00:05:13] Derrick Aguilar: my son didn't get to go with me on that trip and he still kind of sideways with me about it and told me that when he turns 18 that I gotta take him. So, we'll see.

[00:05:22] Josh DeTar: So you gotta keep up your running for the next few years.

[00:05:24] Derrick Aguilar: Yeah. Yeah. Fortunately it's only a quarter mile run. It's actually not a very long run. It's pretty short, but, but yeah, maybe I'll tell him it's longer. We'll see if I can convince him. Otherwise, I don't know.

[00:05:35] Josh DeTar: See, my problem is I am like, I'm stubborn enough that I can just run forever, but it ain't fast. so I always joke, I'm like, yeah, I, I can run forever, but if the bear's chasing you and me like I'm the one, I'm, I'll be the sacrificial lamb, you'll get to survive. Like, I ain't going anywhere fast. So I'm always like, the, the run with the bulls is a total bucket list for me, but I'm like, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna be the guy at the back of the pack that's gonna get skewered.

[00:06:03] Derrick Aguilar: Well, it's funny because my buddy, he's kinda like that too. He's the guy that, that's just gonna run faster than everybody and, and, and, or at least try to outrun the person next to him. And we were with a group of people and, another one of our, of our friends was with us, and she froze when it started.

[00:06:16] Derrick Aguilar: She was terrified. and I had to grab her arm and I said, we gotta go and people are falling and, you know, getting stepped on and stuff. And we're jumping over people and I'm like, grabbing her arm so she doesn't fall. And she, you know, she, she,kind of stays with the group and that sort of thing.

[00:06:30] Derrick Aguilar: 'cause they say the most dangerous thing is when a bull gets separated or when you're by yourself. Right. Bull gets separated from the pack, they don't know what's going on, and then it kind of makes things kind of scary and then you're kind of in trouble. So, wanted to kind of stay with a pack and, and, not, not lead to astray.

[00:06:46] Derrick Aguilar: So, yeah, that was him. He ran away and I had to help our friend not, not get stuck and regret it for the rest of her life, or get hurt or something, you know, like I didn't actually run, I just stood in place the whole time.

[00:06:57] Josh DeTar: That's wild, man.

[00:06:59] Derrick Aguilar: Yeah.

[00:07:00] Josh DeTar: Yeah, that's a total bucket list. That's super

[00:07:02] Derrick Aguilar: You gotta do it.

[00:07:03] Josh DeTar: Really.

[00:07:05] Derrick Aguilar: And then the, the festival itself is awesome too.

[00:07:07] Josh DeTar: I was gonna say, yeah, so there's gotta be a whole element of an experience around it too,

[00:07:11] Derrick Aguilar: Yep. Yep. It's a seven day festival. and you know, at, at at night there's all sorts of, you know, festival type stuff and, and wine and tappas and, activities. And they do a little run for the kids where people dress up with, you know, and these bull kind of outfits and put fire crackers on the horns and running around and stuff, and the kids get to kind of run around or run away from that.

[00:07:33] Derrick Aguilar: So it, it's fun. It's amazing.

[00:07:35] Josh DeTar: That's super neat. Well, you know, I mean, it, it's funny when we were talking before we hit record, you were like, well, this is gonna sound kind of silly. And I was like, then it's probably right. Like, I love that kind of stuff. You're like, everything in life is an experience. And I think that's so true. But it's interesting, like as you get older and older and if you had more experiences, it is really fascinating to think about like, what are the experiences that stand out most in your mind, you know, and, and how did those shape you?

[00:08:07] Josh DeTar: And it is really true. Like some of these, you know, crazy experiences that we've had. You, you never forget.

[00:08:16] Derrick Aguilar: No. And you know, the things that stand out in your mind are, are, are either the things that give you the most joy or give you the most pain, right? And typically the things that give you the most pain. And whether you're talking about from a personal perspective, like a fun travel memory like I just shared with you, I'll remember that forever.

[00:08:35] Derrick Aguilar: And, you know, I'll remember travels with my kids forever. I hope they do too in, in a positive manner. Even in scenarios where travel hasn't gone as planned, it still always kind of works out and, and it's kind of fun. But when you have a negative experience in a manner that really affects you, and really cuts deep, typically it's because it's something that's meaningful to you.

[00:08:54] Derrick Aguilar: and those things shape you as well. and I think it also helps you get a better understanding for other people and reminds you that. You don't know what people are going through, especially when you're in an industry like ours or you're in a role like mine, or in a lot of roles in credit unions, right, where you really have to be cognizant of what other people are going through or at least try to be understanding of that.

[00:09:14] Derrick Aguilar: Having your own will, your own experiences from that perspective, I think are, are really important and allow you to be empathetic and, and that sort of thing. So, you know, whether it's something we're talking about finances, right? If you have a really hard time with something in your life, whether it's buying a home or, or paying a loan or, or whatever that is, you're, you're probably gonna remember that because of the, the, the overlap with the rest of your life.

[00:09:41] Derrick Aguilar: so, so yeah, those things absolutely shape everything, at least for me. They shape, shape how I think and they shape how I think about others as well.

[00:09:52] Josh DeTar: You know, I really love the way you kind of tie that all together too, because it is. It's so true. I mean, you, it's really the, the, the biggest experience is positive and negative that you remember, and then the impact that it had on your life is kind of how long that stays with you. Right. And so the biggest, most impactful things obviously stay with us the longest.

[00:10:18] Josh DeTar: And it's like how can we influence the positive versus the negative because those are gonna live with people and the positions that we take in our professional career like can literally put you right smack dab in the middle of someone else's life experience and like what that's gonna do to them. And it was funny as you were talking about it, I was thinking about, you know, right before the holidays I took my last work trip.

[00:10:45] Josh DeTar: and this was right before the holidays and I'm one of those people I like go, go, go, go, go all year. I, I probably should be better about this. Like never take time off, but I try to shut it down hard at Christmas and like my wife and kids always look forward to that. I try to really unplug, be super home, be super present, and I had to take this work trip where I was like, I was flying home right at the start of that time off with them.

[00:11:11] Josh DeTar: And long story short, it was like one of three trips I probably took all year where I actually checked the bag. 'cause I had to take a bunch of stuff with me. And so I literally had this empty suitcase that no longer had the stuff in it with me as a check bag. I go check in the night of my flight. We get on the plane, it gets canceled, we have to get off the plane.

[00:11:34] Josh DeTar: I'm like, okay, now I'm in stress mode. I'm trying to figure out how am I gonna get home for the holidays. It's the holidays. So it's airports and flights at the holidays, right? Like, you know, the risk you run. I'm a seasoned travel pro, like I get this. So I'm not terribly bent outta shape because this is just life.

[00:11:50] Josh DeTar: This is kind of the risk you take, right? But at the same time I'm stressing 'cause I'm like, I gotta get home to my kids. This is a non-negotiable. So I'm on the phone with Alaska and you know, obviously the customer service agent, they didn't go break my airplane. Right? It's not their fault.

[00:12:06] Derrick Aguilar: not their fault.

[00:12:07] Josh DeTar: But they're now in the critical path and, and it was really awesome.

[00:12:11] Josh DeTar: Like the, the woman that got on the phone with me right away, she's like, alright, I'm getting you home. She's like, I don't know how, but I'm gonna get you home. And you know, she ended up flying me home on JetBlue. Right? And so totally different airline and just that experience was, you know, she was in the critical path of that.

[00:12:32] Josh DeTar: And it was because she kind of chose that role. Well, what's interesting, Derrick, is that that trip kind of snowballed because then I was on the first flight out the next morning, supposed to go home. I'm gonna have a stop now 'cause I'm on a different airline that doesn't have a direct home to the west coast, and I have this check back.

[00:12:51] Josh DeTar: So I was like, Hey dude, it's the holidays, you know this stuff. Get to the airport early. I stayed in an airport hotel. I walk over, I'm walking through the terminals. It is a ghost town, Derrick. There's nobody, I'm like, great. I'm gonna be super early. I'm two hours early, which I never do for a flight. Like I'm the guy that cuts it close every time.

[00:13:10] Josh DeTar: But I'm like, this one, I'm gonna get there early. I'm not even kidding, dude. I walk around to the terminal where JetBlue is, it is shoulder to shoulder, no movement. I'm gonna miss this flight. And I'm literally thinking there like I can't even get in line to check the bag. I was like. I'm just gonna leave the suitcase.

[00:13:29] Josh DeTar: I'll buy another one. I'm gonna leave the suitcase. I'm just gonna go

[00:13:32] Derrick Aguilar: in it. Not worth it,

[00:13:33] Josh DeTar: not worth it. I was like, you know, and again, long story short, I get on the phone with Alaska and the agent is like, I got you. And so, you know, I tell you that story just because while that was even a couple of weeks ago now, like that really stood out.

[00:13:50] Josh DeTar: That stood out as two people who had total opportunities to influence my experience in that moment. And because they chose a path of, I don't know what their life experiences were like, I don't know what their training was like. I don't know their own personal, you know, like foundation. But whatever the combination of those things were, they had empathy in that moment and they were calm and they were slow, and they were thoughtful and they were deliberate, and they understood the position that I was in.

[00:14:23] Josh DeTar: And it absolutely made a difference. Right? And that's something that's, I would argue, like middle of the road, right? Like yes, it would've really, really sucked for me to have not gotten home to the family for a couple more days, right? Or whatever. But it wouldn't have been the end of the world, right? We would all gotten over it.

[00:14:43] Josh DeTar: But to your point, like if I missed four or five, six of my mortgage payments, that's a really big deal. Right? And so you guys do end up being in a really critical path for people's experiences. And so how do you think about, you know, the little experiences, like just how easy is it to, you know, transfer money from checking to savings in digital to, hey, what is an experience like if somebody's in a really tough spot and they walk into our credit union and they need help?

[00:15:13] Josh DeTar: Like how does all of this life that you've experienced and you time at the credit union shape, how you approach the CXO role there?

[00:15:23] Derrick Aguilar: And so we, we talked a little bit about how the big, the big life events, right, impact, have an impact on you and, and stay with you, for time, whether it's positive or negative. But, but sometimes those little things feel really big too. And even in the grand scheme of things, like in your travels, right?

[00:15:41] Derrick Aguilar: In the grand scheme of things, it's not the end of the world. you know, nobody's dying. It is just, it's not to be dramatic, but, but you might miss a day or two with your family, but you'll remember that your kids will remember that, and then you'll remember the whole experience through, you know, through like the feeling.

[00:15:57] Derrick Aguilar: We keep using the word experience, but really it's the feeling that you have and the stress and the consternation and, and, and that sort of thing. So it doesn't matter, you know, whether you're trying to move money around or, you know, you're, you're at risk of not being able to make your mortgage payment because of whatever government shut down just 'cause that's recent or, you know, whatever it might be.

[00:16:19] Derrick Aguilar: it's really up to us to, to really not so much focus on, you know, the, the, the, the, the type of issues from that perspective, it, it, it's up to us to try to better understand, you know, where our members are and where they need and really. Step up to the plate for that moment of truth, whether it's an in-person interaction, like the ones that you had, just what you're sharing, you know, these two individuals, maybe it wasn't the, like you said, it wasn't that big a thing in the grand scheme of things, but you remember it and then you're talking about it.

[00:16:53] Derrick Aguilar: And the fact that they gave you that affirmation upfront, like, Hey, I got you. That gave you, that automatically helped you. Like, okay, let me calm down, right? They're gonna help me. This is great. but also with how we focus on, you know, setting up the credit union and its infrastructure and all of the things you mentioned, digital banking and, and all of those things are table stakes at the end of the day, right?

[00:17:15] Derrick Aguilar: We, we, we have to be able to do those things right? And we may screw something up if something doesn't work. Something simple. You, you, you reference like a money transfer or something like that, that may seem simple, you know, just having a conversation sort of flippantly, but it's not, we don't know what that person needs to move that money for.

[00:17:35] Derrick Aguilar: We don't know what else they have going on in their life. So, so we, we treat, you know, and, and we come from the perspective that, that every, every moment counts. And every moment, at least, at the very least, has the potential to be a big deal for that individual. And we take that seriously. And our, our, you know, we're a purpose-driven organization and our purpose is, is simple.

[00:17:55] Derrick Aguilar: And it's not novel. We're probably not, I know for a fact we're not the only credit union that, that has a purpose or a mission. That's, but it's, it's simple. It's enhancing lives. Right. And it's in all of our conference rooms, it's all in our break rooms. It's, it's in all our meeting rooms as a reminder, that every moment matters.

[00:18:11] Derrick Aguilar: And, and it doesn't matter whether we think it's small or large. It could, it has the potential to be a big impact to that member no matter what.

[00:18:18] Josh DeTar: You know, Derrick, I was fortunate enough, gosh, this was maybe 18 months ago or so, I had a guest on the podcast who was the former CIO for JP Morgan Chase. And he gave an example. And what I thought was really interesting was, you know, this was coming from somebody who worked for, let's just be honest, who a lot of times we call, you know, the, the bad guys, the big banks in the

[00:18:44] Derrick Aguilar: Right.

[00:18:45] Josh DeTar: And and I think it's because a lot of times what happens at scale is the personalization of care and services and connection to community gets a lost and you become more of a check mark the box than a really value driven, relationship with people. But what I thought was really interesting was, he was talking about how, you know, a lot of times we think.

[00:19:07] Josh DeTar: Especially in the world of software, especially in the world of like services, in terms of percentages, right? And he gave an example of, he said he was in a meeting one day and one of his operations teams came in to give him and Jamie Diamond, like the whole rundown of the organization and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[00:19:28] Josh DeTar: And they came in and they touted how impressive low their downtime statistic was on their ATMs. And it was like some fraction of a fraction of a percent, right? And so they had that meeting. They came back to the next meeting and he started the meeting with, he goes, you guys remember, tell me how impressive that stat was and how, how proud of it you were.

[00:19:51] Josh DeTar: They're like, yeah. He goes, cool. I ran the math. This is how many, like tens of thousands of people were affected. He was like, so I would like for you to go to every single one of their houses and tell them how proud you are of that statistic. I was like, oh, Savage. But you know, it was interesting. It sparked a conversation and it, it turned into something that we actually talk a lot about, which is, is kind of what you were talking about, right?

[00:20:16] Josh DeTar: Like you think about the impact that it has at maybe a global level may not seem like a big deal, but I use the example of like for us or for digital banking, right? RDC, remote deposit capture. It's an integration, right? There's multiple parties involved in this. It goes down for whatever reason, right?

[00:20:37] Josh DeTar: For one person, statistically, that is no big deal. Statistically, that is really, really, really good. Probably nobody's SLAs have even impacted at that point, right? One single person who cares. That one person who couldn't use RDC is a single mom who works at a restaurant that pays her with a check, and she needs to be able to cash that check to be able to pay her rent today.

[00:21:03] Josh DeTar: And RDC is down for her. And so now she has to drive to the nearest branch that'll accept that check before they close

[00:21:10] Derrick Aguilar: If they're even open.

[00:21:11] Josh DeTar: And to do that, she has to miss her son's baseball game. And the point is, I want you to go sit in front of that mom and tell her how proud you were. There was only one person that was affected.

[00:21:21] Josh DeTar: You know what I mean? And that is, I think that's where, especially the credit union industry is really, really special, is because there's people like you that I'm, I'm putting words in your mouth, but I feel pretty confident in this. You would really care about that one person, right? Like you would lose sleep over that one person.

[00:21:39] Derrick Aguilar: A hundred percent. It, it, it, we have to be careful to not get caught in that trap that you're talking about. Right. The percentages and the statistics and those things are important. Certainly have to have to leverage that information to make decisions and that sort of thing. But I think that, that people that are in a role like mine, also have to have very high expectations, and, and very little wiggle room as it relates to those things.

[00:22:04] Derrick Aguilar: You know, within reason, of course, because the impact, as you mentioned, whether it's to one person or, or 10,000 people, could be life changing or life altering. and even if, even if she's able to get it done, you know, as I alluded to earlier, you in the conversation we had. before this, even if you are able to get what you need at the very end, like in your example, you're able to get the, the, the check cash and pay your rent and it's fine, but you missed your, your, your, your child's baseball game and you're all stressed out and, and you know, you were almost, you know, gonna be in a really bad situation.

[00:22:39] Derrick Aguilar: That feeling is gonna stick with that person and and that feeling's not gonna be good. And it's not only gonna hurt us as her financial institution, whoever her financial institution is, but it's gonna hurt her in the long run. And she's gonna feel scarred and, and gonna have issues with trust and, and, and, and being able to leverage those tools that should be helping her, not making her life more difficult.

[00:23:02] Josh DeTar: Yeah. you know, you were talking about earlier too, I totally, like, there's so many elements of financial services that are totally table stakes, right? And they're just kind of check mark the boxes that we have to do, we have to offer. They're not differentiating, they're not special, but we have to do it.

[00:23:18] Josh DeTar: But what I'd love to get your perspective on is, I would argue that how you do the table stakes and how you kind of tie 'em all together is actually what makes you a little bit special and unique. So how do you guys think about. All of the different channels that you now have to manage as a CXO of every single interaction point a member could have with your credit union and could have an experience.

[00:23:43] Josh DeTar: I mean, I'm sure if you, you know, can't chart that out, it's, it's almost terrifying how many different ways they can have an experience with you. So how do you think about tying all those together and trying to manage as many of those interaction points being as positive as possible?

[00:24:00] Derrick Aguilar: Yeah, so, so the first thing is tactically. We try not to focus on features. 'cause it's, it's, it's, it's really easy to do that. That's the check the box thing, right? So we, we go to a conference or we read up on the trades or whatever the next best thing, and then all of a sudden you're doing this because it's the next new shiny thing, you know, this technology or this vendor that maybe does it better or, or partner that maybe does it better or whatever.

[00:24:28] Derrick Aguilar: So, I try to make sure that our teams don't get too caught up in that because then you're just doing things here, here, here, here. And then they're not interconnected or they're not talking to each other, or, or maybe they're not even really relevant. and I've been, I've been at pen air for almost, you know, four years now, about three and a half years.

[00:24:47] Derrick Aguilar: and I saw a little bit of this and not, not because pen air was doing anything wrong, but I think that that's just a symptom because we have so much going on and coming, coming at us, right where we were delivering. Services through digital channels that members didn't even really want or care about, right?

[00:25:04] Derrick Aguilar: Like, you spend all this time and effort launching it, and then nobody's using it. you know, and, and maybe we were too, maybe it was too soon in the process or whatever, but at the end of the day, somebody got sold on something that we really didn't do our due diligence on from a member need perspective, which I think everything has to start with what, what are the actual needs?

[00:25:23] Derrick Aguilar: and I'll tell you what it is, it's e notary service. And not that there's anything wrong with that service, but for us, because of a lot of different things that we don't have time to, to, you know, to talk about here today, it wasn't the right deployment of resources. And more importantly, the, the, the, it was an opportunity cost where we could have done something else that was more impactful for the member.

[00:25:41] Derrick Aguilar: Right? So, so that, that, that was a good learning point for me when, when I got here. but as I think about the whole thing and at the risk of using a, a, a cliche, you know, or, or you know, a, a, a buzzword. the way that, that we like to think about this, the way that I like to think about it is an ecosystem, right?

[00:26:00] Derrick Aguilar: So, I know it's kind of corny, overused term, but, but I mean, I don't know. I don't

[00:26:04] Josh DeTar: Yeah. I.

[00:26:04] Derrick Aguilar: to articulate it. Yeah, it, it's an ecosystem and the member doesn't care. I don't care that you have, you know, digital banking, that you have person to person, that you have ACH, that you have real time payments.

[00:26:21] Derrick Aguilar: They don't care about any of that, that you have branches, that you have the contact center. What they care about is, can I do what I need to do when I need to do it? Is it easy and is it gonna help me or is it gonna hurt me? You know, all of those things, depending on the stakes, depending on the scenario, that's what the member cares about.

[00:26:39] Derrick Aguilar: So I need to move money and I can't go to a branch today. So the member's not thinking about channels, they're just thinking about how they're gonna move that money. So, so we try to look at it from that same perspective on our side. Yes, I understand there's different channels. you know, there there's different infrastructure and, and, but at the end of the day, it's up to us to, to bring it together.

[00:27:04] Derrick Aguilar: And we're not perfect and we're not, you know, we're, we're definitely not where, where, where we want to be, but we're working towards that and that's really creating an experience for our members that when they think about pen, air and they need to do something, they have an option for that and an option that works for them at the right time.

[00:27:24] Derrick Aguilar: And that's really easy to say. It's really easy for me to articulate that, and, and say that that's what we're, but it's really hard to execute, right? So that, that's the way I have it written in, in, in my portion of the, of the strategic plan, right? In terms of, you know, from a member experience perspective, that's what our teams see and we have it split it up into different, different things.

[00:27:44] Derrick Aguilar: So you got the ecosystem, which is really the way the member interacts with us. And then, and then we have different, those different categories like we talked about, whether it's just simple digital banking or it's money movement, you know, or, or whatever. But the goal there, by having it structured that way, is by bringing it together and figuring out how we can overlap so that way the member can, can interact the way they want to.

[00:28:05] Derrick Aguilar: And if they need to jump channels, they can do that as well. but again, super hard to execute something that we're constantly working on improving and getting better at.

[00:28:12] Josh DeTar: You know, that brings up another interesting point, Derrick. I was thinking about, you know, kind of tying back to what we're talking about of, you know, using the example of somebody not being able to use RDC, you know, to your point, like members have no idea. They see the tip of the iceberg. They have no idea what's going on underneath of that.

[00:28:30] Josh DeTar: And one of the things that I find kind of

[00:28:32] Derrick Aguilar: And they don't care

[00:28:33] Josh DeTar: No. And they don't

[00:28:34] Derrick Aguilar: just, they just want their check to go into their account. That's it. That's all that matters.

[00:28:37] Josh DeTar: So I, this is one of those like experiences that'll stay with me forever, that had a really big impact on me. I won't name names, but I was with, one of our customers and I was literally just like in town. I was like, Hey, I wanna stop by, say hi, see how things are going, like, talk about what's happening.

[00:28:53] Josh DeTar: And I was there and they ended up having, some critical system failures of different things. And I was like, Hey, I'm happy to just leave and let you guys deal with this. I was like, but do you mind if I just like, sit as a fly on the wall in the war room? I'd, I'd love to take this as a learning to see how you guys interact with something like this and you know, what happens.

[00:29:14] Josh DeTar: And so I'm just kind of sitting there and observing, and this went in late into the night and I mean, people haven't gone home, seen their families. I was like, you guys want me to order pizza for you? Like you, you just realize none of you have eaten, like, and what was crazy was I got home and I don't know what made me think of it, but later on I happened to be checking like their Google reviews.

[00:29:41] Josh DeTar: There were a bunch of comments from that day when they had this system outage, and people were absolutely livid. And I remember seeing one comment that said, whoever is in charge of this piece of the credit union should be fired. And it really hit me, man, because I know who that person was. They were in the war room, and I know how freaking dedicated they were and how much they cared and how much sleep they lost, and how they didn't go home to their family.

[00:30:15] Josh DeTar: And they could have said, Hey, you know what? We'll get to this tomorrow. They don't, they don't say that. They jump right into the trenches and they get to work. And why I bring that up is it's just, it was like, people don't know. They don't care. But to them now, there's a negative experience for them. And yes, you think about the trickle down effect of, okay, maybe that was somebody who missed their rent payment and now that snowballed a whole nother set of problems for them or whatever it may have been.

[00:30:43] Josh DeTar: But you know, to them they were like, this is something simple. Whoever let this fail should be fired. It's like, nah, you actually don't understand like the layers of complexity of this. And like, you should get in a monkey with a core sometime. You lemme know how that works out for you. Like, you know what I mean?

[00:30:59] Josh DeTar: And so they don't, they don't, they're like, I, I, I just needed to move money from point A to point B. What's wrong with you idiots? Why couldn't I do this? But nobody really understands the complexity of financial services in the US unless you work in it.

[00:31:11] Derrick Aguilar: Right, right. And honestly, they probably shouldn't and shouldn't need to. And it's up to us to, to work through that. And things are gonna happen like that, you know, at the end of the day because nothing is perfect and nothing will ever be perfect. so it just goes back to, to how you handle those things and how you create connection.

[00:31:28] Derrick Aguilar: And even in the most difficult moments, and in fact, you know, how you react to the mo most difficult moments and the most challenging moments really shapes who you are, whether you're talking about as an individual or as an organization. and you will always have, you know, that, that if you handle things correctly, if you will always have a handful of, of, of naysayers or or vocal minority that still upset.

[00:31:52] Derrick Aguilar: but at the end of the day, if you handle it right and people see that and you communicate effectively around it, and you, when I say effectively also, you know, you try to connect with your members and try to exhibit empathy in your communication, and it's not just this corporate blah, blah, blah. you do those things, then the majority of your membership will see it and they'll feel it.

[00:32:13] Derrick Aguilar: But that's also not just a one time thing that you develop that connection you were talking about, you know, at scale, how, how you handle all of these different touch points. That's another component is, is, yeah, we know how to make connection. It's easy to make connection one way or another, good or bad, with people through channels where the member interacts with a person, right?

[00:32:33] Derrick Aguilar: At the end of the day, and it's like in your examples with the airline, it's, it's largely up to that individual and, and in terms of what that experience looks like. So as an organization, we have to make sure that, that, that we provide right. Training, hire the right people, all that kind of stuff. but at the end of the day.

[00:32:48] Derrick Aguilar: Creating connection with people and creating connection with communities. and, and, and doing those things on an ongoing basis is so important because you have to buy that goodwill. I, I say buy, but really you have to earn is probably a better term. Earn that goodwill over time because if not, then you're just going back to the corporate, blah, blah, blah.

[00:33:08] Derrick Aguilar: You know, if, if, if, if one of the big super regionals or one of the big banks or, or even the largest, you know, credit unions on the planet, have an issue, and if something comes off overly, overly,corporate and not really, hitting, you know, what members should understand and should hear and and, and they're not experiencing it in the way that they should, that's gonna create some issues for them down the road, you know, from, from that perspective.

[00:33:31] Derrick Aguilar: So the connection is another hard part. again, at scale from an organization to a membership, not the one-on-one. I have a great relationship, you know, with, with Josh 'cause he's my banker and he takes care of me and he cares about me.

[00:33:44] Josh DeTar: you know, pardon the pun, but you're right. You, you are like, you're, you're building up a bank with your members, right? And I'm sure we've all, you know, heard the analogy, use the same with your spouse, right? Like, I've set a precedence for my wife that I, if I say I'm gonna be home from a trip, like I will be home and I will make that flight at whatever cost.

[00:34:06] Josh DeTar: So when I don't, she knows, I know he tried, I know he cared, right? But if out of the last 30, I missed 30, she's like, you don't

[00:34:20] Derrick Aguilar: right. Yeah.

[00:34:21] Josh DeTar: You, you haven't built a bank of my trust of saying that this is important to you. Right. And same thing, like if my credit union just. Constantly is having issues, constantly is demonstrating that they're not listening, that they don't care, that they're not there, that they're not building a relationship.

[00:34:41] Josh DeTar: And then of course I'm gonna have very little patience. But at the same time, I think, you know, sometimes we're better at it than others. But for the most part, I'd like to think that humans are decent at remembering that none of us are perfect. Right. And so we understand, hey I, I get it. This was one of those times that you were imperfect, but you have a track record of working really hard to be as perfect as you can be.

[00:35:05] Josh DeTar: And then I think you've touched on probably the most important point of it is, is communicating right? And it is really interesting to me to see how, not just within our own industry, right, but just industries at large and the companies that you interact with, how some companies handle communication than others.

[00:35:24] Josh DeTar: Right. Like I'm a huge fan personally of the radical transparency. Right. I love it when I get an email from some company and they're like, Hey man, we really screwed up and we're super, super sorry, and here's what happened. Here's what we learned from it. Here's how we're gonna fix it. Thank you for keeping your trust in us.

[00:35:42] Josh DeTar: I'm like, yeah, absolutely. You, you bought my business again with that.

[00:35:46] Derrick Aguilar: Unless it's happening every other week,

[00:35:48] Josh DeTar: Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Unless you get the, I'm sorry, over and over and over again. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:35:54] Derrick Aguilar: No, and I, I mean, we, communications is, is is such an important part of, of, of what we do. I mean, every function of the organization, has, you know, is, is very important in its own right.

[00:36:06] Derrick Aguilar: But speaking of communications, oh my gosh. We, we, we labor over how we communicate for different scenarios, for different things. and sometimes I feel like, you know, I, I, I feel like I have to ask my team like, okay, I, I. I'm sorry that I'm kind of digging my heels in on this or, or I'm being so nitpicky.

[00:36:25] Derrick Aguilar: and, and, and just because it's so important that we get it right and sometimes, you know, the, the wrong tone or the wrong word in the wrong place or something like that, right. Can, can have consequences. And that affects the, that's part of the experience too. so communications, you know, from a credit union perspective, I think is, is a really important discipline because it's sort of is the personality of the credit union.

[00:36:51] Derrick Aguilar: And as long as it's aligned with how the credit union actually, you know, executes, right? It's like you, you, you talk the talk, you gotta also walk the walk. it's so important 'cause you can walk the walk, but if you don't talk the talk, if you don't communicate effectively, you know, you people, at the end of the day, perception is reality.

[00:37:09] Derrick Aguilar: And you may be, you may be the best at, at, at, at several things and, and have the best up times and all of that. But, but if members don't think that because of one incident and you didn't communicate it effectively, or you're just not doing a good job of building goodwill over time and building that kind of relationship, with your membership base, then, then, then you can, you, you know, people will think the the wrong thing about you.

[00:37:33] Derrick Aguilar: And, we have a fantastic communications, you know, function at, at, at PenAir that, that is really involved in a lot of the things that we do. So, you know, we talked about, you talked about the, we talked about the ecosystem and, and you talked about how we look at member experiences and things like that.

[00:37:49] Derrick Aguilar: And, and communications is literally in the room. They're in the room right now too. they're literally in the room as we are undertaking projects, solving problems. Working through initiatives, adding new products, updating technology because then they help communicate it both internally so our people know how to communicate it, but also we're communicated in a communicating it as an organization in effective manner, in the way that it's supposed to be consumed in intended, and all of that good stuff.

[00:38:18] Josh DeTar: You know, you touched on something I wanna come back to, which is communicating the positive stories to kind of build that bank. But, but before I do, so that kind of ties into what we were just talking about earlier of, you know, all these different channels. So it's all these different experiences that your members have with you.

[00:38:37] Josh DeTar: Everything from, you know, were the buttons clean on the ATM

[00:38:42] Derrick Aguilar: Yep.

[00:38:43] Josh DeTar: to, you know, how long was the teller line on a Friday afternoon to how long did it take me to get, you know, my phone answered when I called the call center to Yeah. Was I able to log into digital banking easily? Two, how did they communicate and market and message to me?

[00:39:02] Josh DeTar: All of those channels all tie together, and you're having to think about kind of that ecosystem of all of those different touch points, and not just that they function well, but that each of those feels like pen, air.

[00:39:15] Derrick Aguilar: Yes. Yeah, that absolutely that, that, that is so key and important to, to, to what we do it. I mean, if, if you don't, then, you know, we're just a mobile app, you know, we're just a whatever. And, and it doesn't matter. And you know, people these days, they're not loyal to brands and honestly, why should they be? But you also don't, don't want to give them a reason to run off, you know, because either you're cold or, or you just, you, you're not effective in your execution in how you help them solve their problems.

[00:39:53] Derrick Aguilar: so all of that ties together, not just the execution, but, but, but the communication a hundred percent. and, and you know, when you're looking at, at the different, when you're looking at different channels too, and we're looking at how we communicate about those channels and, and how we inform our members on what's available to them.

[00:40:09] Derrick Aguilar: It's also understanding how our members use us today and where there's opportunities to, to improve those member experiences. And, you know, you, you mentioned, you know, the, the branches and the ATMs and, and, and the contact center and, and that sort of thing. And, you know, we, we've, we, we've sort of shifted our branch model a little bit.

[00:40:30] Derrick Aguilar: you know, over this. I say sort of we've shifted our branch model the last couple of years. and that's all based on understanding how our members are, are, are using us and what they're using us for. And we're, we're definitely not the first ones that have done this, but we we're, we're deploying smaller, smaller branches, much smaller, you know, like 1200 foot smaller.

[00:40:50] Derrick Aguilar: and we're leveraging ITM technology there as well. and the reason that we're doing that is because we're finding that the majority of members are coming in for a couple of different reasons. The first of which the branch is kinda like a help desk, right? So if something either goes wrong or, or they just.

[00:41:11] Derrick Aguilar: They feel like their situation is complex enough that, that they, they need to talk to somebody and have 'em, walk them through it. Even if they can do it on their own, they just kinda want a little bit of that extra help. they come to the branch or they, they call the contact center. The, and the contact center is already well equipped for this, but, but in the branches, we were placing too much of an emphasis on how we service, you know, or, or, or, or, or placing too much of an emphasis on how we train people and, and the mental bandwidth that is required around teller transactions in, in, cash operations.

[00:41:42] Derrick Aguilar: Right? So, so what we did there is we shrunk our footprint. we leverage ITMs, which we were already doing in our drive through. So our membership was already, you know, familiar with, with the technology. And now we have less employees in our branches. Yet better trained and more effective at solving problems.

[00:42:01] Derrick Aguilar: Oh, and by the way, if a member doesn't like the ITM, well they have, they'll have two people help them because they'll have the person in the branch walk 'em over and help 'em, plus the person on the other side in the ITM, right? So it's kind of this concierge white glove service. But the point of all of that is, is that understanding what our members' needs are and, and, and really kind of shifting how we serve them to improve those experiences in those different channels, that allows us to be more effective for them and really allows, allows us to be more effective in those moments of truth.

[00:42:28] Derrick Aguilar: So if I have a problem and I'm coming in to a branch, whereas in the past you come in and the person in front of you might also be the vault teller, and they're getting pinged on teams because they need to do a vault buy, or they need to, you know, they, they need to give somebody an override on the teller line.

[00:42:44] Derrick Aguilar: They need to excuse themselves, or maybe the line is longer because there's not enough people to cover both sides. And the service really does take a lot longer. we were able to flip that on its head. And for the people that are coming into the branches, we're able to service them with, with a much higher degree of, of, of, confidence and giving them what they need and, up training and upskilling our people.

[00:43:05] Derrick Aguilar: And then that also allows us to be more effective going back to the whole ecosystem conversation we had earlier, right. That allows us to be more effective in some of our other channels that, that, that don't require human, human interaction because now, we can, we can place a different kind of focus there and, and, and really tie those two things together where we're, where the branches and really, really evolving how we use our branches with how members are interacting with us as we move into the future.

[00:43:31] Derrick Aguilar: 'cause those are obviously getting used less and less Right. And in different ways.

[00:43:35] Josh DeTar: You know, I'd love to get your perspective on this, given what you were just talking about, Derrick. So, you know, one of the things that I've been talking a lot about with folks over the last little bit is you we're kind of in a very new age of competition for financial services. I argue it's very, very different than it's been for the last a hundred years.

[00:43:53] Josh DeTar: And, and it's because the world has become so incredibly hyperconnected and I don't really, I'm not geographically bound anymore and I'm not knowledge deficient the way I used to be. Right. and I'll give you a very simple example of that, right? Like even just think back to the 1990s, right? And if I wanted to learn what all CD rates were available to me.

[00:44:23] Josh DeTar: Right. That was a lot of work to go figure out who was in my area that could take my cash, they could put it into a cd. That was gonna be a good rate right now, and I love showing this as an example. I can go to chat GPT, and I can build a profile on me and my financial life and I can say, these are all the products and services that I need.

[00:44:45] Josh DeTar: Go find me the right mix of financial institutions regardless of where they're located, headquartered, couldn't care less, as long as I can do business with them. Go find me the best mix of financial services providers that can provide me the lowest or highest rates, depending on what product I'm looking at, whether it's a loan or like a CD or a money market account.

[00:45:10] Josh DeTar: Go find me the best mix and then help walk me through getting relationships with them and Chachi PT can do that for me. So I would argue rates used to be a great differentiator for credit unions. That's off the table now, and especially when it's a great differentiator for all of you. So if all 10 of the credit unions around you all have great rates, then you just have the same rates.

[00:45:36] Josh DeTar: The other is then the argument is that our big differentiator is our people. Well, if everybody says that, it ain't a differentiator either. Right? Maybe it's a differentiator against somebody like Venmo who doesn't have people that pick up phones and care, right?

[00:45:55] Derrick Aguilar: for those, for those that care. And even then, even then, people, financial relationships don't look like they look used to look like, right. The whole PFI thing, the primary financial institution thing doesn't even exist anymore. I might use Venmo for what I need it for, which is gonna, and might still use the credit union, but that's gonna take, you know, deposits and, and, and, and services and stuff away from the credit union.

[00:46:16] Josh DeTar: Yeah. So with that in mind, I would actually then kind of like contradict myself and say that I do actually think that people are your biggest differentiator, but only if used properly. And you have to think about using your people, not just as being really smiling, helpful faces in branches, but how do you create a culture of people at your institution all across the organization from leaders like yourself to somebody on the teller line?

[00:46:51] Josh DeTar: How do you create a culture of thinking about how does this add value or a positive experience to our member? That's where differentiation's gonna be created, in my humble opinion. But I'd love to get your thoughts.

[00:47:04] Derrick Aguilar: Yeah. So, so two things. I, I agree with you. I, I, I, I think that there's, that's gonna create some level of differentiation for, for every financial institution. FinTech, whatever, you know, whoever we're talking about. 'cause everybody's doing financial services these days now, right? so the people. At the, in the front lines.

[00:47:26] Derrick Aguilar: Yeah, a hundred percent. Right. And I might say, you know, credit union A might say that we have the best people and credit Union B might say they have the best people and you know, they're probably both gonna be pretty good and they're gonna care and all of that good stuff. And then you have the people on the back end that you talked about, the people that, that the members don't see, but, but you know, truly care.

[00:47:45] Derrick Aguilar: And, you know, at least in, in, in our scenario that truly care. But I would, I'd be willing to bet that most credit unions are, are kind of fall in that camp. and, you know, the intersection of, of bringing the right talent, but also the talent that believes in the things that we believe in. And that has, has those same type of values.

[00:48:04] Derrick Aguilar: I mean, again, I know this sounds overly simplistic, but having the right people at the credit union that can help deliver those things, but also care and then having the right leadership that sets the tone. Just what you said. Those are the things that each. Each meeting starts with, you know, e each, each planning session, you know, each board meeting, I mean, all you, you have to start with that.

[00:48:26] Derrick Aguilar: You have to set the direction in, in the North Star and then bring in the right people and, and, and with the right talent, 'cause you can get somebody that, that, that's fantastic and is super aligned with the purpose, but maybe they don't have the capabilities that you need or at least for that role, right?

[00:48:41] Derrick Aguilar: So then you're gonna fall short there. so talent, talent development, recruiting, building the culture. Yes, a hundred percent agree that, that, that's, that, that is or can be at least a differentiator. I also think that that another differentiator for, I mean, I was gonna say for credit unions, but really for, for anybody, it kind of goes back to what we talked about earlier, and it's our ability to connect with the communities that we serve.

[00:49:14] Derrick Aguilar: Connect with the members that we serve and to truly connect. Because at the end of the day, I mean, I think you'd agree that, that, that we, we, we, for lack of a better term, sell a com commodity, right? I mean, banking services are commodity. And I agree with what you said earlier too, right? All the table stakes things, you know, there are table stakes and, and, but you have to be able to execute 'em, right?

[00:49:36] Derrick Aguilar: You can't just have 'em. And, and then that's it. If you're not executing correctly, then, then you're creating member experience issues and, and people can't pay their bills or, or get what they need or get, get a loan in a expedient manner or, or whatever. So that connection that I kind of alluded to earlier is, is, is I think really difficult, in, in buying that goodwill.

[00:49:58] Derrick Aguilar: And that's part, that's, that's also a part of the culture and part of the people. 'cause you have people that have to do that, right? So it's all interconnected. But, but by doing that and by setting the tone and having the right culture, that that's, that's really where I think you could be the. You could be the, the, the, the most differentiated, at least from other others in, in your, your service area or, or at all.

[00:50:20] Derrick Aguilar: Because as you mentioned, the, the, the geographic bounds just don't really exist anymore, you know, so for us, there, there's a couple of different things, but I'll mention one that's really important and it kind of alludes to all of the culture building and like starting the meetings and, you know, all of that kind of stuff.

[00:50:35] Derrick Aguilar: But one of our guiding principles is a term that we coined, basically a word we made up. It's commun university.

[00:50:43] Josh DeTar: Okay. I like it.

[00:50:44] Derrick Aguilar: And, and I can't take credit for this. I wish I could, 'cause it's awesome. and it's, it's, it's my understanding, you know, if I have the story correct that somebody in, in, in our cash vault.

[00:50:55] Derrick Aguilar: we have a, a cash in transit function where we, you know, we, we do our own, we're our own Brinks or Loomis or whatever, right. Which is really cool. So, but somebody in our cash vault, many eons ago kind of came up with this term and, and shared it with marketing. And marketing was like, oh my gosh, this is amazing, right?

[00:51:10] Derrick Aguilar: And, and, and then we incorporated it into what we do and all that good stuff. So this is amazing and it's fantastic, but generosity is a combination of, of community and generosity, right? and it is one of our guiding principles and it talks to what we're here to do and why we do it and why it's important.

[00:51:33] Derrick Aguilar: And that is the cornerstone of our brand narrative. It is the cornerstone of, of our communications. When, when, when we're, when we do marketing, it's not, I mean, yeah, we do product marketing and all that. Everything everybody else does. But, but we really leverage this guiding principle, not just the words, but in, in how we interact and, and the community service that we do, and how we're generous with our time and how we're generous monetarily, but also what that means for how we serve our members.

[00:52:04] Derrick Aguilar: And, and we really leverage that narrative to try to build that connection, with, with our members in the communities that we serve. And it's, it's something that, that in, in our core markets and the markets that, that we've been in for a while, people resonate with and they know about it, and it really gives us that goodwill that we talked about.

[00:52:23] Derrick Aguilar: And it's goodwill earned. It's, it's not just, you know, we're, we're, we're saying, you know, we're saying words to by goodwill, I mean it's goodwill earned. But to me that's a part of the differentiation because we're more than just. A place where you keep your money or that gives you a home loan or, or, or what have you.

[00:52:38] Derrick Aguilar: We're, we're a lot more than that. And that's what we, we, we try to be, and we try to have a personality and try to connect in in more ways than just those transactional ways. Like, you know, deposit your money with us because we offer this rate. Yeah.

[00:52:50] Josh DeTar: Yeah, that, that perfectly brings us back around to what we parked earlier, but I want to kind of finish out on. You had made a comment about, you know, people aren't loyal to a brand, and I would agree. I I, I don't think people are loyal to a brand, but what I do think they are loyal to is they're loyal to a culture and they're loyal to, you know, I guess I could probably throw out any number of examples of companies and immediately you would say, oh, they suck to work with, or, I really don't like that company.

[00:53:23] Josh DeTar: Right. I guarantee you there's really amazing human beings that work there, that really, really care and are trying really, really hard. But the culture of that organization doesn't support them. It doesn't enable them, it doesn't empower them, and it doesn't build them up and build a culture around that.

[00:53:42] Josh DeTar: And so, no, their customer base is not gonna be loyal to them, right? Because they can see the culture of the company. It's just not that. But on the flip side, you know, a. A company's culture from an outside perception is made up by a lot of different things. And it's everything from the interactions that I have with them to, you know, how do they align with my personal views of corporate social responsibility to, you know, I mean, just the other week my wife and I were talking about, there's a company that I love and follow and buy their products, and I bought a handful of their stock when they iPod.

[00:54:21] Josh DeTar: I've completely lost my shorts on it, like bad. And, and I, I, I just kind of forgotten about looking at the stock because it had gotten so bad, but I still follow the company. The other day I looked at it and it's far worse than I'd even ever imagined, and I was telling my wife about it and she was like, well, so how do you feel about the company then?

[00:54:41] Josh DeTar: And I was like, well, you know, you know, when you look at, your Apple stocks, it always pulls up like recent news and everything along with it. You know what the top story was, was that the company was so proud that they got crucified at their earnings call, but they had raised and donated, $400 million to pay off veterans, medical bills.

[00:55:02] Josh DeTar: And I was like, yep, I love the company. Don't care

[00:55:05] Derrick Aguilar: Yeah. Hard not to,

[00:55:07] Josh DeTar: that. That aligns with my corporate social responsibility. So that tells me about the culture of the company and that was the reason why I loved them in the first place, was what they were doing for veterans. And so they were saying, Hey, look, other people may not love the areas of our business, but we're doing what we said we were going to do.

[00:55:26] Josh DeTar: And so for me, I was like, that earns, going back to, that earns my trust. So I'm not loyal to their brand. I'm not loyal to their products. Their product is a total commodity product that can replace tomorrow with any other like 10,000 options. But I'm gonna remain loyal to them for all of these different reasons.

[00:55:46] Josh DeTar: And I think credit unions are in a really, really similar place to that, right? Like you align so incredibly well with I think what a lot of people are really craving these days, which is alignment to doing good and community. And let's take politics out of it. Just look at, people are passionate right now.

[00:56:08] Josh DeTar: People are passionate about the things that they care about. And I think, again, you take the politics and the sides out of it. At the end of the day, what most people really, really want is they just really want good for their fellow human. We just want our communities to thrive and be successful and to be happy.

[00:56:26] Josh DeTar: Credit unions really represent that in financial services. I've always argued that point, and one of the things, again, this brings us back around to what we've, we've parked and you were just kind of talking about, one of the things that absolutely kills me is how little credit unions seem to want to talk about that.

[00:56:44] Derrick Aguilar: Yeah, we're the

[00:56:44] Josh DeTar: I'm like, man, you guys are literally like, yeah, you're Superman and you're running around like Clark Kent all the time. Like, throw on the cape every once in a while, show people what's up.

[00:56:56] Derrick Aguilar: A hundred percent. Absolutely. And, and, I, I, I think that's going back to the things that differentiate us. That's, that's one of those differentiators for us as an industry. And it's also the best kept secret, and we don't do a good enough job of telling that story. And, you know, when, when members think about going back to, you know, them not caring about the, the plumbing and, and the infrastructure, they just want, they just want to take care of what they gotta take care of.

[00:57:22] Derrick Aguilar: they just think of us as their bank and they even say that, I gotta go to the bank, you know, or I gotta call the bank, or I gotta do something on, you know, or on the app at the bank or whatever. So, differentiating ourselves in a better way to where people understand, like the company you're referring to.

[00:57:43] Derrick Aguilar: We don't care, you know? Well, first of all, there's no fat cats in Wall Street getting rich off of credit unions. I mean, at the end of the day, right? Like, like, yeah, like our, our, our stakeholders and our stockholders, if you want to use that term, are our members.

[00:57:58] Josh DeTar: It's you.

[00:57:58] Derrick Aguilar: Yeah. Yeah. So everything that we do, and I can say this confidently as an industry, generally speaking, I'm sure there's some exceptions, but generally speaking, everything that we do, I know we do at PenAir, it everything that we do, it's for our members and it's with our members in mind.

[00:58:14] Derrick Aguilar: And it's to give back to our members and talking about the, the, the things that we, we mention when we start meetings and when we're doing, you know, when we're launching something new or whatever is. How does, not only how does this affect the member, but how does this giving back to the member? So, you know, at, at the end of the day, we have to make sure that people truly understand that.

[00:58:33] Derrick Aguilar: So while we do a good job of talking about the work we do in the community, I think we, we generally do that. we don't do a good enough job educating people on the difference. And, and while, you know, a big bank or a private bank is not a bad thing, is different and, you know, we're gonna do things that are gonna benefit the member, not, not the stockholder in, on Wall Street or, or what have you.

[00:58:57] Josh DeTar: Dude, I, yeah, I just, that's the kind of stuff when people talk like that, like I get super pumped because that is the, that's the truth, man. I love, I probably overuse this, you know, in podcast episodes, but, you know, one of the things that I love doing that probably annoys everyone else if I put myself in their shoes, but one of the things I love to do when I travel around is I, dude, I've gotten to the point like talking about, you know, companies that create good experiences, right, wrong, or indifferent.

[00:59:26] Josh DeTar: Like, one of the things that's had a huge impact for me is Uber and Lyft. I never rent a car anymore, man. It's actually cheaper and more efficient for me to just Uber or Lyft, wherever. Because usually, you know, I fly into the airport nearby the credit union. It's, it's pretty simple meetings. I don't go anywhere.

[00:59:43] Josh DeTar: I don't need to do anything. I just get my Uber, go to the hotel. Every time I'm in an Uber, I always ask, I'm like, Hey, just curious, where do you bank where? And it always leads into these super fascinating conversations. And it comes back to what you were talking about with, like just sometimes people don't even like realize until you start having the conversation, the impact that it has had.

[01:00:15] Josh DeTar: And sometimes they do. And what's fascinating is when you hear the people that I'll talk to and they're willing to share and they're like, oh, you know, I'm with the, this credit union. I'm with pen air. I'm like, rad, tell me about that. Like, how long have you been a member? Like what services do you use from them?

[01:00:31] Josh DeTar: Why do you like them? And what's really, really cool is how many times people tell me these crazy stories of some one moment. And it wasn't the table stakes thing, it was that one time they really needed somebody to be in their camp and the credit union was in their camp. And they're like, I'm a die hard for

[01:00:52] Derrick Aguilar: Yeah. Yeah.

[01:00:53] Josh DeTar: never pull me from them. You know? And, and then what's crazy is how many times I have conversations with people and they're like, oh, you know, I'm with whatever, or I don't really have a somebody, and I'm like, Hey, I'm just curious. Like, what would it be like if you had somebody in your camp? Who would it be?

[01:01:08] Josh DeTar: Like, if somebody did care? Like what would it be like if you, you felt like you were an owner of that institution and they're like, oh, that would be so cool. I'm like, really? Have you heard of a credit union?

[01:01:22] Derrick Aguilar: Yeah,

[01:01:23] Josh DeTar: Have you heard of a community bank? Right? Like, have you heard of a community ecosystem of financial services?

[01:01:30] Josh DeTar: That really puts you at the core, that puts you at the heart of what they do and what they think about. And people resonate with those stories. And I, I think it's crazy how many times I hear of these stories and then I think, man, I'm curious. I'm talking to this member in this Uber and they're like telling me this crazy story that's like bringing me to tears about how PenAir service them.

[01:01:55] Josh DeTar: And I'm sitting there going, I wonder if PenAir's telling that story. And that's what gets me so excited is when I talk to people like you and you're like, yeah, like we're looking for those stories and we're not shy of telling those stories because it's not bragging, it's not egotistical. It's coming from a place of, this is a demonstration of how we are a part of caring for our people and our community and our members.

[01:02:20] Josh DeTar: And we want you to have a story like that. We wanna be a part of your story. And I think that's cool.

[01:02:27] Derrick Aguilar: I Absolutely, I, I, I, I think that we get caught up on, again, table stakes important, gotta gotta continue to make sure that those things are there and continue to improve and we make things easy and remove friction and all, all of that, all of that stuff super important. And I don't wanna make it sound like I'm discounting that because I'm not, obviously critically important, but this component that we're talking about now is the one that we probably don't pay enough attention to and put enough of an effort into, like the same kind of effort we put over here, which should, you know, obviously shouldn't change.

[01:03:01] Derrick Aguilar: because then that really helps people understand. Who they're doing business with. Going back to your example with that company, right? You, you don't care that you lost your shorts. I mean, obviously that's kind of an extreme situation. But, but, but you would care if, if, you know, they, they were, they, they were on the news for the opposite thing.

[01:03:19] Derrick Aguilar: You know, they were stealing money from, you know, from babies or something, I don't know, stealing candy from babies, right? So, it, it, it, it's so important and we as an industry need to do a better job of, of, of letting the secret out and helping people understand that, that while we might not be the only option, and heck, we might not be the only place they bank, because as I mentioned, heck, I think I got like 16, you know, apps on my phone for different financial services, right?

[01:03:48] Derrick Aguilar: And I can't remember, I remember reading somewhere that the average was somewhere like over nine or something like that. I don't remember. Don't quote me on that. But the point is, is that people are using different services. And they're not just parking their money in, in one place. But the point is, is that if you really want to do business with people that care, and with, with an organization that cares, then the credit union is there and, and the credit union is gonna be there for you as well.

[01:04:13] Derrick Aguilar: I, I, I have several personal, you know, examples, but I have one that comes to mind of that and just in my own world, 'cause that also shaped me, you know, and how I think about things. And, you know, I, I, I start, as I alluded to at, at the start of the conversation, you know, I started in, in, in member service and, you know, I, I worked in branches while I was going to college and.

[01:04:33] Derrick Aguilar: And I, I love that time because it really helped shape me. And I've have, I have a handful of members to this day. I don't even work at that credit union anymore. And to this day still call me for advice or wish me happy birthday or, or whatever. there's this one particular example that I always like to, that I always remember and that I always like to share because of the impact.

[01:04:52] Derrick Aguilar: And, this was really early in my career, probably within my first three years at, at the credit union. And I was helping, I remember helping this, this elderly man and, and his family. I say, I remember, I mean, it was, I helped them over the course of several years, but I started to help them when I was relatively new, two or three years into the credit union.

[01:05:10] Derrick Aguilar: you know, they were great family and, and I took care of everything they needed out alone. You know, they needed, they, they just had questions, they needed, whatever they needed, they would come to me. I became their defacto banker. And over time, this member became, you know, started to, to, to, to get dementia.

[01:05:28] Derrick Aguilar: And it got, I think he already had it and just, just started to get worse and worse and worse and worse. and I continued to help him, you know, all the way up until I, I moved, which was several, you know, years later. I, I, at that same credit union, I ended up moving, to another, another city, to, to take on an operation there.

[01:05:47] Derrick Aguilar: well, needless to say, unfortunately, you know, the member passed away. but his daughter made it a point to call me to tell me. And, you know, it, it just, that's one of those moments where like, okay, well, number one, I'm super sad because I spent a lot of time with this individual. I got to know him and his family and I know what he meant to them.

[01:06:11] Derrick Aguilar: And, and I mean, he meant something to me too. You build relationships with people. but the fact that she took it made it a point with everything going on to call me in a different city, to tell me was huge. Well, that's not where it ended. His son, her brother was stationed at the military base, in the same city where I was living.

[01:06:31] Derrick Aguilar: And I guess, you know, his sister told, you know, told him that I was there and he showed up to the credit union unannounced one day and I get a phone call like, Hey, you know, such and such. And I'm like, who? But the last name was familiar. So I was like, huh. So I come out to, and he wanted to come and meet me and just to thank me.

[01:06:50] Derrick Aguilar: you know, for, for the care that I took for their father. And because at the end it was really hard and they said that nobody else, anywhere else could help him because, you know, as de my grandfather had dementia too, you know, you get to a point where you can be really aggressive and or you just kinda repeat the same thing over and over.

[01:07:07] Derrick Aguilar: All, all of the symptoms that, that are just horrifying. And, you know, it, it didn't phase me one bit because I, I, I knew who he was before he got sick and it didn't matter. I was there to help them. And, he, he, he made it a point to come and talk to me and meet me and shake my hand and just tell me how much that I meant to him and his family.

[01:07:26] Derrick Aguilar: And I'm like, even to this day, it just hits me. Like, this is the impact that we make on people, whether it's, you know, in a member service role like I was in at, at the time, or even just as a credit union, you step up and it could just be this employee that you don't remember, like the one that helped you get home, you know, in a scenario where they're helping you solve, but they tell you, I got you and, and they got your back and they help you through whatever that was.

[01:07:47] Derrick Aguilar: And that's what credit unions are, is the point I'm making. Yeah.

[01:07:51] Josh DeTar: Yeah. And you know, it's, I think if you think about it through that lens, you're current, you're kind of reminded. It is an absolute incredible honor to be needed by someone.

[01:08:02] Derrick Aguilar: Right.

[01:08:03] Josh DeTar: You know what I mean? And I think sometimes we take that for granted. And, you know, kind of similarly, I, this is one of those, it was like a crazy epic simple life lesson that will just never leave me.

[01:08:17] Josh DeTar: And it was early in my career with Tyfone and our COO was on a call and he made a comment and it was in context of something else. It wasn't, it wasn't, he was, wasn't trying to make a point or make a point to me, but it just always stuck out. And he made the comment, he said, A cu if a customer calls you at two in the morning, they don't give a crap about the weather.

[01:08:38] Josh DeTar: They're not calling you to ask about the weather. They're calling because they need you. And it's a really big honor to be needed by someone. So if somebody calls you at two in the morning, you should be honored to pick up the phone because they called you, you were who they called in their moment of need.

[01:08:57] Josh DeTar: That's an honor, and you should carry that with a badge of honor, and you should then treat it with the respect that it deserves, that someone needed you. And that's kind of always stuck with me and it really reshaped like it's an honor to be needed. And then you look at what that turns into and it's like that father, he needed you for financial services and he needed you to help him.

[01:09:19] Josh DeTar: And especially when he needed somebody that was the only person that could help them. And like, what a cool honor that turned into for you. And, and that's what I mean, like, I, I just, I feel so passionate about the credit union industry telling those stories because just like going back to, you know, the example of the, the company with the stock that I have, right?

[01:09:42] Josh DeTar: It's not even just about the experiences that I have with the brand that builds that bank. It's about the experiences that others have with that brand that are shared with me. That have an impact on the bank of loyalty they've built with me. Right? I may never need my credit union in a moment of need, but if I hear time and time again from my credit union, how they helped other people in need, there's a part of me that's kind of like, well, yeah, I wanna participate in that.

[01:10:17] Josh DeTar: I, I didn't need them, but like me being a part of that credit union helped that person. That's kind of cool. Right? And I think that's where that whole you know, cooperation, cooperative community model comes from. It's from people who care about that. And I think there's a lot of us out there like that.

[01:10:37] Josh DeTar: And so I think there's a huge market opportunity for credit unions by just being who you are, as crazy as it sounds.

[01:10:45] Derrick Aguilar: gotta be who we are, but we gotta execute too. 'cause at the end of the day, if we're the nicest people on the planet, but we we're not able to give members what they want it, then, you know, it falls apart. Go, you know, it's, it's that balance that we've been talking about.

[01:10:56] Josh DeTar: So, okay, so great point. So pull this all together for me, Derrick. So how do you take all of this and with the probably 10 million things you could do with your time in a day, how does this help create a priority list for you and your credit union? Like how does this help you to sit down at the start of every day and say, okay, these are the things that I want to tackle.

[01:11:17] Josh DeTar: These are the strategic objectives for our credit union. These are the problems that we're gonna solve. These are the opportunities we're gonna take advantage of. These are the things that we're gonna do for our members because I think it's gonna have impact and add value. Like how does that, how does that structure your day?

[01:11:33] Derrick Aguilar: Well, the way that it's, I, I mean, I don't know how it structures my day, but if we look at it a little bit more, you know, from a, from a macro perspective, right? And how it, it, it structures my thought process and how we, we, we, we prioritize and place, levels of importance on things. It, it goes back to what I said earlier.

[01:11:51] Derrick Aguilar: It's understanding what our members need. It's understanding who they are and it's being able to deliver based on those things. So we don't wanna just go out and, and like the e notary example that I used, you know, a a a little while ago, we don't wanna just go out and just dump a bunch of stuff out there and, and then make sure it works, works really well.

[01:12:11] Derrick Aguilar: A lot of the work has to start with truly understanding what these folks need and what our members need and what the communities need. And, and there's a multitude of things that we do around that, you know, from a voice of the member perspective to understanding how members are navigating through our digital channels and when there's, where, where there's abandonment and where there's issues and you know, there, there, there's, online and, and, and social media reputation and just number of things, right?

[01:12:38] Derrick Aguilar: And, and, and we, we leverage that and take that information and we use it to make decisions and we use it to help guide what we do. And, and really as far as how I prioritize, you know, my days and if we're really getting more specific, it's really based on that one thing and based on. On, on how, what our members need and how we're gonna do that, and how I enable my teams to be able to execute on that and be successful from that perspective and ensure that we have alignment from that, you know, north Star perspective.

[01:13:09] Derrick Aguilar: We're all moving in the right direction. So that's, that's how, how I prioritize my thought process and how we prioritize as an organization and how I help my team prioritize the things that they do on a daily basis.

[01:13:21] Josh DeTar: Oh, like it, you know, if I can, give one piece of advice that I think kind of aligns with what you were talking about. You know, one of the things that I love to, when I talk to our customers, our prospective customers, and we look at trying to do a project, right, and whatever, it's, if it's in, you know, a new third party integration or whatever, if it's a new, you know, adjustment to how a workflow works or a new feature or function.

[01:13:44] Josh DeTar: I always ask and it's so dorky. It comes across so dorky, but like it really, I think it works. I just ask, what's your definition of success?

[01:13:54] Derrick Aguilar: A hundred percent.

[01:13:55] Josh DeTar: What is your definition of success? And is that definition objective, subjective, or both? But how do you measure, how do you look back at different time periods and say, this met my criteria for success.

[01:14:09] Josh DeTar: And if you can't write that down, you shouldn't start the project.

[01:14:12] Derrick Aguilar: And, and, and not just for a project, but that is such a critical,question for, for team members as well, right? As we're talking about the leaders in the organization and the, the things that differentiate us, the great people, is you have to understand what, how they define success as well. And, not only from the project perspective, but also with their own personal values and career and, and all of that stuff to help kind of tie all, all of that together.

[01:14:35] Derrick Aguilar: so yeah, super, super,Great point on on that. 'cause if you don't know half the time, right, like if you really think about it, sometimes you see projects kick off and nobody knows what they're doing it for. There's just a project and let's go. But if you define the success and the roadmap and the vision around it, and if you can articulate it, if you can write it down, then people know what they're, what they're working towards,

[01:14:56] Josh DeTar: Yeah, totally. Well, I think a lot of times it helps, it helps craft link. Is this actually the right decision? Because one of the things that you see a lot of times is, I don't know, just trying to think of a really simple example that doesn't like call out anybody or anything, you know? But like we say, we want to implement X and then we say, okay, well what's the definition of.

[01:15:19] Josh DeTar: Implementing X. Well, the definition of success is that it does this for our members, and you're like, okay, well if that's actually the definition of success is doing this for our members, is that actually the right way to do that? Yes, it's a way to get there, but if that's actually the definition of success, is there a different avenue that actually gets us closer to that definition of success?

[01:15:45] Derrick Aguilar: Yeah. Like, you know, I, I keep mentioning this example and, and, I'll, I'll use it again because it's, it's a real world example and we learned from our mistakes, right? We made a mistake and we learned from it, and I'm okay sharing that. You know, I mentioned the e notary thing. You know, I, that conversation, I wasn't in that conversation.

[01:16:02] Derrick Aguilar: But when it happened that, that definition of success probably either wasn't, you know, that conversation either didn't happen, or, or the definition of success is, well, now we start offering e notary. Okay, well, how is that a success?

[01:16:16] Josh DeTar: Yeah.

[01:16:17] Derrick Aguilar: Who is that gonna help? And, you know, how prevalent is this, the need, you know, later on, of course, we found out that there's only like a handful of things in, in the, in the states that we operate in that can actually be e notarized.

[01:16:29] Derrick Aguilar: So, so the demand isn't high because most things have to have, you know, wet. Notary, I guess, for lack of a better term. So that goes back to how important it is to really understanding, you know, not only your members' needs, but but the needs of, of the area that you serve. And tying that, going back to the definition of success.

[01:16:49] Derrick Aguilar: 'cause you can define it all day, Hey, I, we need to do this because it does this well, but is that really needed? And is that really the real definition of success? Is we wanna provide services to our member that, that drive value? Well, is this gonna drive value, to our members? Well, no, not really, because they really can't use it anyways.

[01:17:08] Derrick Aguilar: I mean, they can for a few number of things, you know, but, but to get the point across it, it's, it's not really, it's not really helping many folks out. And going back to the opportunity cost of something else we could have done that could have been truly impactful.

[01:17:23] Josh DeTar: Yeah, no, I love that example. 'cause I think that's a great, it, it, it does kind of do a good job of walking us through that, right? Like if you sit there and you say, okay, we're gonna do this e notary, you say, okay, what's our definition of success? Well, our definition of success is that now we can offer e notary.

[01:17:37] Josh DeTar: You're like, no, no. That's not a definition of success. That's an outcome. What is the definition of success? Well, the definition of success for that is that members, I'm just gonna make this up, members that are, you know, getting a mortgage need to have this document notarized. And we really want to help drive higher adoption in our mortgages.

[01:17:58] Josh DeTar: And so that is the definition of success, is making the process of getting a mortgage, you know, easier. And you say, okay, well is that the biggest pain point in getting the mortgage then? Well, no, it's actually here, but that is one of the pain points that we could solve for. And then you look at it and you say, okay, well how much is this e notary digital service?

[01:18:17] Josh DeTar: Okay, what costs us $1,500 a month? How many members actually need E notary for this and can get E notary? Oh, it's 10. How much does it cost us to have an employee drive out there and just have them notarize it? It costs us a hundred bucks a member to do that. Okay. So it'll cost us a thousand bucks to send someone out there to go get a wet notary and build a relationship with them.

[01:18:40] Josh DeTar: It's 500 bucks a month less. And now we've met the definition of success of just helping people through that process of getting the mortgage and oh, we check mark that box and, oh, we didn't do this project, so now we can focus on something else in that mortgage lending flow that actually creates a bigger bottleneck, right?

[01:18:57] Josh DeTar: Like, I'm just making all

[01:18:57] Derrick Aguilar: No, no, but the, yeah, the thought process is spot on. Right. And, and you know, sometimes because we're not perfect and as we keep alluding to, we we're never gonna be perfect. We make these mistakes. What a great learning moment. 'cause we're gonna make mistakes and, and that's okay. And, and, we just have to make sure that, that the tuition was, was, well learned, if you will.

[01:19:18] Josh DeTar: Yeah. No, I, I, I think that's a, a really important point to, to kind of add to it, is, is that going back to what we said earlier, like, we're not perfect, right? And it's really, really easy for me to sit here and sound like I do a great job better than anybody at doing this whole define success. Dude, I screw that up all the time.

[01:19:37] Josh DeTar: Like literally, I just had a conversation yesterday, with somebody on my team and we were like, when we did this, what was our definition of success? And both of us were like, I have no idea. But if we had asked that question, we probably would've taken a totally

[01:19:51] Derrick Aguilar: Because we get in the moment.

[01:19:52] Josh DeTar: And we just get in the moment, you just go and you're like, shiny object syndrome, right?

[01:19:56] Josh DeTar: Whatever it is

[01:19:57] Derrick Aguilar: we're all guilty of it, me included.

[01:19:59] Josh DeTar: of it. Totally. well, Derrick, I mean, dude, it's been an absolute blast chatting with you and this is the kind of stuff that, dude, I just, I get so fired up having these kinds of episodes, talking with people like you that, that really get it, like get the differentiation of credit unions and you're thinking about how to very, like strategically, tactically, but also very thoughtfully and emotionally and humanly go about bringing that differentiation to the market.

[01:20:29] Josh DeTar: I've, I've said it a million times. I'm gonna say it again like I'm a father to young kids right now. One day they're not gonna be little kids. I want my kids to grow up and I don't want them to say, I gotta go to the bank. I want them to say like, I have to go to my relationship center. Like I gotta go to my credit union.

[01:20:45] Josh DeTar: Right. That's important to me. I want the world of community financial services to exist when I don't, because I see the good that it does. And when I get to talk to people like you, I'm like, yes, it's still gonna be around. Like, we're still doing this thing. Right? So thank you so much, man, for, for spending time with me, and thank you for just in my humble opinion, doing it right and just caring and putting the right thought process.

[01:21:08] Josh DeTar: Like you said, you're not perfect, but man, you're doing a pretty good job, so thank you.

[01:21:14] Derrick Aguilar: It was a blast. A lot of fun. Thank you for the opportunity to have the conversation.

[01:21:17] Josh DeTar: Yeah, absolutely. But hey, before I let you go, I got two final questions for you. So first off, where do you go to stay up to date on what's happening in the industry?

[01:21:26] Derrick Aguilar: I mean, really all of the, the usual suspects, right? Like the, your, your typical, trades and, and e magazines and, and all that kinda stuff. E-magazine, is that even a term? But you know what I mean. Right. You know, you know, all, all, all of the stuff that everybody's heard of, like the CU times and the financial brand and.

[01:21:46] Derrick Aguilar: You know, all, all, all of this, that stuff. But where I really find, value and where I, I tend to feel like I get a better pulse for what's happening in the industry is LinkedIn, honestly, because of the news and the updates that my connections are sharing, or the things that my connections are, are writing, right?

[01:22:09] Derrick Aguilar: Because a lot of us, that's the other cool thing about our industry is a lot of people in the industry are writing or, or putting content out there or, or, or, or, or whatever. And, that is to me, the best place, the best aggregator, to get great insight into what's happening to the industry. And that requires building a network and, you know, certainly, would like to help continue to build my network and, and, and learn, learn from others.

[01:22:36] Derrick Aguilar: But, I, I recommend that to everybody. I like, I, I like to look at LinkedIn. and news of, of my colleagues and peers and people in the industry and outside the industry. And, and sometimes I get,you know, through that I'll, I'll get exposed to something that I wouldn't have otherwise. So for me, I find a lot of value in that.

[01:22:54] Josh DeTar: Well then this probably tells me, I know how you're gonna answer this next question, but, so if people want to connect with you, or if they wanna learn more about, your credit union, how can they do that?

[01:23:05] Derrick Aguilar: LinkedIn is absolutely the best place to start, you know, look me up on LinkedIn. I'd love to connect, love to learn from others. Love, love to love to share. you can learn a lot about our credit union on LinkedIn as well. Our, our, our team does a fantastic job doing that. And you can go to, you know, pen air.org as well.

[01:23:21] Derrick Aguilar: but LinkedIn is probably the best spot 'cause you'll get a little more than you get on the website.

[01:23:25] Josh DeTar: So that's awesome. I love that. I do actually love seeing, the credit unions that are super active on LinkedIn. 'cause I'm a, I'm a hardcore consumer of content on LinkedIn too. It does, it just, it does a great job of aggregating, like I actually appreciate that LinkedIn kind of started as the whole like find a job type of platform, but it's really morphed into just our professional, like connections, circles, social media, you know what I mean?

[01:23:52] Josh DeTar: And it's like I get to see pictures of Derrick and his kids traveling around and I get to learn about a member success story at PenAir and a new product they launched, you know what I mean? All on the same thread. And I think that's super cool. so I'm a big fan of that answer. But again, Derrick, thank you so much for taking so much time outta your day.

[01:24:11] Josh DeTar: thanks for kind of invigorating me and hopefully the folks that, listened or watched this episode. And thanks for coming and being a guest on the Digital Banking Podcast.

[01:24:18] Derrick Aguilar: Thanks for having me. It was a blast.

[01:24:20] Outtro: Thank you for listening to the Digital Banking Podcast, powered by Tyfone. Find more episodes on digitalbankingpodcast.com or subscribe on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your favorite podcasts.